So been reading through the Magic Burner and found a section called "Art Magic" where it describes a different system for magic users. Basically the caster determines what he wants the spell to do and the system for "Art Magic" determines spell duration, OB and all that jazz. I think it is much neater then having a set spell list that you have to buy with RP and was wondering if you would support it. Maybe keep the spell lists around to show that a person has spent time and effort getting really good at casting that particular spell or something.
I might consider a shift like that as part of a story line. Perhaps we find "wild magic" zones or an ancient lost grimoire that opens the door to the ancient ways. Or perhaps one of the Shotuk masters from ancient times is found to have returned. Big however here though: This is a low-magic world and we need to keep it that way. Magic has to be difficult and mysterious to the extent that it is almost not worth the effort. Otherwise, we end up with a fantastical world that no longer resembles our own. Fantasy of this kind needs to feel familiar. Have any ideas along those lines?
If we don't add will to the sorcery roll and leave the Obs of art magic as they are, it makes magic more difficult. And with each mage able to use magic in the flavor they choose it makes it more mysterious.
As Joe said I think keeping the old spells around would be cool. However I feel that having them be the only way to cast either limits a mage to doing one thing and then spending the rest of their RP on being a part of the world, or being an actual mage and spending everything on spells.
Also spells like Breath of Wind, Weatherworker and Lightning Storm are so powerful that they alone kinda break the feel of low fantasy. Hard to feel like low fantasy when you can literally level a city with one spell that only causes you an Ob 4 tax test. Art magic makes the Ob and the tax harder as you increase the area. So if there even was an equivalent for Breath of Wind in art magic (which there isn't) it would cause you around a Ob 10 tax test to level a city. This would kill most mages or at least put them in a coma, which to me seems more low fantasy than the former.
I'd also like to point out that at least from what I've seen of this world it does not feel low fantasy.
- Giant crabs controlled by ogre mages sailing from a magic crystal fortress that seemingly sprang out of the ground.
- Cities with an actual magic section of the market that sells magic items.
- Animated suits of armor that respond to mental commands.
- Sadistic Fey creatures wondering around seducing/murdering virgins.
- Owlbear attacks.
- Vagina caves.
I'm not saying it's bad or even that I don't like it. I'm just saying it doesn't feel low fantasy to me. I'd say medium to lower high fantasy, or maybe "restrained high fantasy" would fit as a descriptor. :p
I think it's gotten a bit higher magic recently due to the whole fey awakening and related things.
That being said, some of those things are happening because we're players and at the center of the action, so there's a lot more crazy magic stuff going down around us than there is for he average person.
Yeah I can see that. That doesn't change they way the campaign feels to me but it's a point.
My main point still holds true though. With 1-10 dice, even open ended dice, the things you can actually accomplish with art magic become much more in line with low magic than the set spell list.
You know, as long as you disallow the set monster burner for the trait seed or the trait seed itself.
Yes, It's supposed to feel like the whole thing is going to Hell in a hand basket. Low magic with the scary old magic looming over your head and all that. Add the chaos makers dispensing magic items (that are supposed to much more rare than that) and a young godling raising the baddies from their slumbers and its got to feel a bit menacing.
On another note, I am no fan of this magic system. The whole thing sucks if you ask me including art magic. there isn't enough detail or play-testing in any of it.
Yes and you are weaving that loom over the campaign quite effectively, Will stated a fairly succinct explanation of why so many high level fantasy things are about. I'd like to be completely clear on this, I really like the world you have here Brian, I'm not bashing it, it's really cool.
I agree completely about the magic system and personally would go farther and extend your sentiment to the whole system. It functions for what it is being used for (a system that encourages role play) and that's about the best I can say for it.
With the possible exception of about 40% of the life paths. Having certain life paths just give you nothing seems like it would discourage almost anyone from taking them, and other (young lady, city born student) just give you so much it's hard to pass them up. lol
It is by no means the worst system I've played. That is and has been reserved for the marvel role playing system. Close second Iron Claw is a little closer to burning wheel in it's combat, but it makes it more annoying and it is a furry themed system/world. Both of these not only were easy to break but they had as much role play incentive as D&D. Both had the added failing of not working smoothly and having simple options you could take at start to just one shot everything without even trying specifically to break a character.
The largest problem I have with this system is actually the way you improve things, it literally makes it impossible for you to ever improve some things because you don't roll them. And the task of keeping track of how it works means for the most part people won't do it.
I have considered making systems where the times you actually do something are counted like this. It always came back to the same realization; this level of micro management does nothing to add to the enjoyment of the game and is best left to video games.
Oh and a perfect example of the lack of play testing you mention is the Add Trait option in art magic, I don't know why he thought letting people mix and match all the best monster traits was a good idea but he was wrong and he should feel bad. lol
There are actually a very nice sheets to keep track of artha in game play in the gold downloads. I'll print some out if I ever remember. That might help me help the players keep track.
I don't really need a special sheet, I'm just saying the process is excessively micro managey.